Search form

Published January 22, 2013

There were some questions about the Fatal Ascension, Test, and Important Internet Spaceship League relationship in my previous article.  Montolio wrote a much more in-depth piece on the events that damaged FA-Test relations, leading to the current situation.  With his permission, here is a copy paste, in all its unedited glory.

Posted Image

Story Time

Buckle up friends, this is a long story. I see a lot of statements flying around about Fatal Ascension - nobody seems to know why we have issues with them just that we do. "Fuck FA" has become a cry our newer members shout with no idea of the history between us. The history is long and involved - TEST was an early friend of Fatal Ascension and Zagdul especially. He and I used to work together closely and supported each other in all endeavors. We were brothers. TEST and FA had a BFF that could rival our relationship to Goonswarm at the time. As our paths diverged and our alliances grew older we went from collaboration to rivalry. Fatal Ascension has always strived to be seen as one of the top alliances in the CFC while TEST desired independence and fun. When we migrated into Fountain and the NC collapsed, the Fatal Ascension bropact collapsed with it. Fatal Ascension became very focused on themselves, very serious business. We've had a couple of incidents since then, I will try to highlight the most important.

Poaching is a BDEAL

I noticed at some point in August 2011 that a lot of corporations from Important Internet Spaceship League, one of our first allies that we had independently, were leaving for Fatal Ascension - I spoke with Zagdul about this. I was told that it was all above board and I had nothing to worry about - more on this later.

FA Shot First

This incident was from October of 2011, when TEST was working on a friendship with Pandemic Legion - a friendship that the CFC did not approve of. TEST & PL did some roams together and camps in the Delve region. This didn't really create too many problems until we ran into Fatal Ascension - my old post does a good job explaining so I will quote that here:


Earlier today an issue arose in Delve. TEST pilots have been flying in fleets with Pandemic Legion camping in Br1ck Squad and Morsus Mihi. I have no problem with this so long as they do not shoot blues.

While coming home from one such op, the fleet encountered a mix of Fatal Ascension and Black-Mark on a gate - when TEST decloaked Fatal Ascension shot at TEST pilots first. This escalated in a full fight between Elite Space Guild, Test Alliance Please Ignore, and Pandemic legion against Fatal Ascension and Black-Mark. In response to this the Fatal Ascension diplomat, Kaleb Rysode decided to make a big deal out of this in gfallies. Claiming that we were in the wrong and that we should reimburse them and yell at our kick our pilots (DurrHurrDurr & leetcheese among them).

I provided logs to Kaleb Rysode proving that TEST pilots were shot first. He accused me of cutting over a minute of the logs, comparing them to the other provided logs this was simply not the case (that minute had no action).

I ended up wanting to settle the issue with a public apology seeing as Fatal Ascension made this a public issue, not TEST.

We reset Fatal Ascension in response to this - it was fixed eventually but the damage to the relationship was done.

Here are some logs from GF Allies around this incident (oh god what if they purge me from the room for rele- oh wait). These are snippets because the entire log is holy fuck too long.

This was at the start of the log right after the incident


(12:34:19 PM) loquitur [FA]: wtf?
(12:34:45 PM) loquitur [FA]: was there a thunderdome with PL or something?
(12:46:04 PM) Kaleb Rysode [FA]: Looking into it now with Aryndel.
(12:57:22 PM) Chomp Wom: what do you guys use for checking peoples apis?
(12:57:48 PM) Chomp Wom: jackknife was great but doesn't support api2
(1:08:16 PM) White Tree: THANKS ENDIE
(1:09:33 PM) zagdul: Can we finally reset TEST?

Here is a gem for our Pandemic Legion friends:


(2:21:14 PM) the_mittani: hi
(2:21:17 PM) the_mittani: i just woke up
(2:21:42 PM) the_mittani: no one who sides with pl in anything over a clusterfucker will get an iota of sympathy for me
(2:22:14  PM) the_mittani: i don't give a fuck if you're naive/dumb enough to  believe in a 'pl bropact', if you are, that means you can get the fuck  out of my region



(5:57:37 PM) dabigredboat: you do realize this is something pl wants right montolio, for you to reset fa or other allies over 1 lossmail because idiots are doing dumb things anyawys
(5:58:19 PM) Montolio: Oh well
(5:58:30 PM) the_mittani: dbdbr: diplomat extraordinare
(5:58:35 PM) theadj: heh
(5:58:48 PM) zagdul: You're being meta gamed by PL monti
(5:59:13 PM) zagdul: You're being played.

FA flirting with boat


(6:05:31 PM) Kaleb Rysode [FA]: Indeed. And TEST was in the PL fleet, so that makes them a hostile fleet.
(6:05:35 PM) dabigredboat: no
(6:05:36 PM) dabigredboat: it doesn't
(6:05:49 PM) dabigredboat: if I was to fly with pl (I wouldn't) would you come shooting me
(6:05:49 PM) dabigredboat: no
(6:06:05 PM) dabigredboat: just because they are with them, doesn't mean they shot blues while doing it
(6:06:07 PM) dabigredboat: its different
(6:06:15 PM) Kaleb Rysode [FA]: I'd never shoot you because you're too pretty.

I actually had full director access to Fatal Ascension forums from our previous relationship. Note Zagdul admitting fault here but refusing to accept responsibility.


(6:43:19 PM) Montolio: zagdul: Remember to remove my director access from your forums 
(6:44:19 PM) zagdul: yeah
(6:44:25 PM) zagdul: dude, we shot first I'm not disputing it
(6:44:51 PM) Montolio: You see, when Fatal Ascension makes a statement like that I heard "We should probably apologize but we won't because it hurts our pride"
(6:45:19 PM) zagdul: nope.
(6:45:23 PM) Montolio: If you don't disagree with the fact that Fatal Ascension shot first, and you don't disagree with the fact that your diplomat called me a liar. Then how can you disagree with providing an apology?
(6:45:38 PM) zagdul: I have yet to see where he called you a liar
(6:46:01 PM) Montolio: He claimed that I "removed 1 minute" and whatever seconds from a log when his logs backed up the fact that that minute was empty.
(6:46:25 PM) zagdul: so a minute was removed.
(6:46:28 PM) zagdul: he didnt lie
(6:46:31 PM) zagdul: or call you one
(6:46:35 PM) Montolio: No, there was no minute to remove
(6:46:40 PM) Montolio: That minute was devoid of combat
(6:46:46 PM) Montolio: There was not a minute to remove as it did not exist
(6:46:59 PM) zagdul: so he made the claim of a minute missing?
(6:47:06 PM) zagdul: where are his words that a minute was removed?
(6:48:26 PM) Montolio: :condi: I have dinner appointments to keep, get the logs from your diplomat. You can reach me via text.



(6:02:27 PM) dabigredboat: c montolio wants an apology for shooting blues
(6:02:29 PM) dabigredboat: that is all 
(6:02:31 PM) zagdul: when I saw the logs I laughed my ass off
(6:03:04 PM) the_mittani: from what i understand, "i'm sorry that my pilot was an idiot and shot blues, no hard feelings" would cover most of this
(6:03:10 PM) dabigredboat: yes



(4:54:47 PM) What you're doing right now is not valuing friendship
(4:54:59 PM) What I am doing right now is called not being a pussy

This incident was basically unresolved - Fatal Ascension never acknowledged being in the wrong. We did some short term limited skirmishing and then set it aside.


The major blowup after this was around Fatal Ascension member corporations deliberately undermining Important internet Spaceship League - I attribute most of the failure of BDEAL to Fatal Ascension engaging in a willful and months long campaign to get the alliance to collapse. It worked. I don't think we really have a big post for this that I can link to, but here is a log most of you probably haven't seen.



Conversation with at 2/5/2012 10:40:25 PM on (jabber)(10:40:25 PM) Zagdul: I'm here
(10:40:42 PM) Alright, so the log I sent you?
(10:41:00 PM) A second name contacted
(10:41:04 PM) provided this:
(10:41:06 PM)
(10:41:12 PM) 338610 / d19g2RFAfm6zG9YpMmgUDz6KekbYIx2WvQm26mQpV8Aoq6IIHTABosSNqbiO7bQg
(10:41:13 PM) and that
(10:41:58 PM) Zagdul: the spartan loh?
(10:42:00 PM) Zagdul: log
(10:42:19 PM) [05:51:19] *******> o/
[05:57:00] Incognito Moonman > yo
[05:57:18] Incognito Moonman > was talking to ******* the other, he said nulli was interested in bdeal info
[05:58:23] *******> nod, he knows more about all of the goings on with that than I
[05:58:42] Incognito Moonman > yea he doesn't seem to want to chat so I figured I'd talk to you
[05:59:45] *******> ok so what are you trying to sell
[06:00:17] Incognito Moonman > Director Level access and perhaps a few api keys, as well as moon income locations and csaa info
[06:02:16] Incognito Moonman > I can tell you right now that anyone with a Nulli/Nemesis/BG/GF background is having access removed
[06:03:00] *******> as far as?
[06:03:32] Incognito Moonman > forum access, ts, and apparently there's a ban list on their api keys and characters
[06:05:12] Incognito Moonman > But I'm willing to offer Director forum access, beyond your regular access that ******* said you already had
[06:06:04] *******> oh, and what are you asking for it?
[06:06:33] Incognito Moonman > I initially said 20b to guderian but I'm open to negotiation
[06:06:55] *******> lol
[06:07:50] Incognito Moonman > As I said, I'm open to negotiation, I figured that was a bit on the high side
[06:08:41] *******> what are you offering? the api?
[06:08:41] Incognito Moonman > 500+ active keys, with about 75 keys with mail capability
[06:09:53] Incognito Moonman > Only catch with the api keys, is they're only accessible through the site via a director character for any corp, however that can be circumvented so you can view director forums and search keys on characters
[06:10:52] *******> hmm
[06:11:06] Incognito Moonman > /emote shrugs, better than nothing
[06:12:00] Incognito Moonman > [06:12:40] *******> yeah.. it is interesting but we have to think about it
[06:13:48] Incognito Moonman > Understandable, but this is an expiring offer so sooner the better....
[06:15:01] *******> of course
[06:15:57] Incognito Moonman > How long do you think you need?
[06:25:47] *******> just some time, we're doing a little debating
[06:26:30] Incognito Moonman > Well let me know, Ill be on for a few hours and as I said I'm open to negotiation on price
[06:29:47] *******> do you have something more substantial.. your member id is publically visible on the bdeal forums and there is little to nothing that we can vet as legitimate
[06:31:18] Incognito Moonman > what would you like?
[06:34:52] *******> one of the keys or a forum account to log in
[06:35:55] *******> how much do you want for 1 key
[06:35:58] *******> or a forum account
[06:37:40] Incognito Moonman > depends on the key, if it's a leadership key probably 1b as several of them you can view mails on, but regular maybe 250m?
[06:40:14] Incognito Moonman > I dont mind giving some sample keys of non-leadership for you to check out but any thing leadership wise I'm iffy about to give out without some sort of deal
[06:41:32] *******> ok, just a general member key and we'll check that out to see and verify
[06:43:48] Incognito Moonman > 338610
[06:43:52] Incognito Moonman > d19g2RFAfm6zG9YpMmgUDz6KekbYIx2WvQm26mQpV8Aoq6IIHTABosSNqbiO7bQg
[06:44:32] Incognito Moonman > and that key does contain mail messages
[06:45:39] *******> rgr
[06:51:06] *******> ok, we're going to look at this and i will get back with you tomorrow, if that's okay
[06:51:27] Incognito Moonman > Yea sounds good
[06:51:52] *******> thanks
[06:52:31] Incognito Moonman > I'll be on sometime around 00:00 until now
[06:52:36] *******> rgr
[06:53:08] Incognito Moonman > o/
(10:42:25 PM) Thats a log after the one I initially sent you
(10:42:43 PM) I'm pretty confident they've either got a backdoor into BDEAL systems or a full database dump
(10:45:02 PM) BDEAL guy did a log dump of the IPs hitting the admin pages on BDEAL Stuff
(10:45:06 PM) Came up with this: - [30/Jan/2012:18:26:23 -0600] - Ageck Kalenia - BDEAL - - [31/Jan/2012:03:56:31 -0600] - radecz3k (BDEAL) - - [31/Jan/2012:05:40:54 -0600] - Titris (BDEAL) - - [04/Feb/2012:13:43:11 -0600] - - [04/Feb/2012:23:28:10 -0600] - Enorio (FA) - - [05/Feb/2012:01:38:35 -0600] - UDSaxman - - [05/Feb/2012:01:42:31 -0600] - Montolio - - [22/Jan/2012:12:14:43 -0600] - TheSaint2000 BDEAL - - [22/Jan/2012:21:11:03 -0600] - Ori Empress (BDEAL) - - [23/Jan/2012:11:22:15 -0600] - Cyno Zicke BDEAL - - [23/Jan/2012:14:59:59 -0600] - - [24/Jan/2012:17:48:48 -0600] - Tearhart (ACE) - - [25/Jan/2012:07:40:17 -0600] - Pinky Demark BDEAL - - [09/Jan/2012:07:27:29 -0600] - Boldt FA

(10:46:33 PM) Zagdul: kk
(10:46:38 PM) Zagdul: it's boldt
(10:46:39 PM) So, what do we do now?
(10:47:13 PM) My gut tells me there is a group of guys carrying out a personal vendetta trying to collapse BDEAL
(10:49:03 PM) Zagdul: we're getting a list of everyone who had access.
(10:49:23 PM) Zagdul: he's telling me right now that there are potentially people within bdeal still unhappy
(10:49:42 PM) Zagdul: my rage right now is that the list you just provided
(10:49:49 PM) Zagdul: - - [30/Jan/2012:18:26:23 -0600] - Ageck Kalenia - BDEAL - - [31/Jan/2012:03:56:31 -0600] - radecz3k (BDEAL) - - [31/Jan/2012:05:40:54 -0600] - Titris (BDEAL) - - [04/Feb/2012:13:43:11 -0600] - - [04/Feb/2012:23:28:10 -0600] - Enorio (FA) - - [05/Feb/2012:01:38:35 -0600] - UDSaxman - - [05/Feb/2012:01:42:31 -0600] - Montolio - - [22/Jan/2012:12:14:43 -0600] - TheSaint2000 BDEAL - - [22/Jan/2012:21:11:03 -0600] - Ori Empress (BDEAL) - - [23/Jan/2012:11:22:15 -0600] - Cyno Zicke BDEAL - - [23/Jan/2012:14:59:59 -0600] - - [24/Jan/2012:17:48:48 -0600] - Tearhart (ACE) - - [25/Jan/2012:07:40:17 -0600] - Pinky Demark BDEAL - - [09/Jan/2012:07:27:29 -0600] - Boldt FA

(10:49:50 PM) Zagdul: that list
(10:49:53 PM) Zagdul: that's personal info
(10:49:59 PM) Zagdul: ip addresses
(10:50:01 PM) You upset that I have it?
(10:50:06 PM) Zagdul: I don't take kindly to that shit
(10:50:16 PM) Zagdul: I'm upset that the information is being shared
(10:50:35 PM) It was shared with me, from BDEAL, because someone in FA is leaking BDEAL information
(10:50:37 PM) Zagdul: I give no fucks about API stuff
(10:50:38 PM) Zagdul: yeah
(10:50:39 PM) Zagdul: I know
(10:50:54 PM) Zagdul: he's telling me that there's someone still in BDEAL unhappy
(10:51:02 PM) This isn't someone in BDEAL
(10:51:10 PM) This is someone directly associated with Spartan
(10:51:12 PM) Zagdul: ok
(10:51:51 PM) I need Spartan to quit undermining BDEAL, cut any access he has to their systems, delete any database dumps, and provide an apology to BDEAL leadership
(10:52:53 PM) Does that seem fair to you?
(10:53:05 PM) We've even had him pulling mails via APIs and shit
(10:59:52 PM) Zagdul: "we do not have that list"
(10:59:55 PM) Zagdul: I showed it to him
(11:00:14 PM) Zagdul: w/o the api's
(11:00:26 PM) Zagdul: w/o the ip's
(11:00:45 PM) Zagdul: an apology isn't going to happen
(11:00:51 PM) How did he get the information then?
(11:00:53 PM) Zagdul: I'm talking to him right now
(11:01:16 PM) If Spartan didn't get the information himself, he put Nulli Secunda in touch with someone that had the information and was willing to sell it
(11:01:21 PM) Either way its pretty damning in my eyes
(11:01:35 PM) If I were to start selling Black Mark API information I assume you'd be rightfully angry
(11:13:44 PM) Should I not be upset? Am I in the wrong?
(11:13:49 PM) Is my information bad?
(11:48:41 PM) Zagdul: the information that I'm getting is this
(11:49:08 PM) Zagdul: a dude who had a couple full api's wanted to sell info to someone as a scam
(11:49:19 PM) Zagdul: the scam didn't work out
(11:49:26 PM) Zagdul: so they bailed on the plan
(11:49:39 PM) Zagdul: the screenshot you showed me is from BDEAL's live server
(11:49:47 PM) Zagdul: which they no longer have access to
(11:50:11 PM) Someone from FA accessed that page yesterday
(11:50:27 PM) According to the logs given to me by BDEAL
(11:50:39 PM) and they provided an API of a BDEAL member
(11:50:43 PM) An API that can be verified
(11:50:48 PM) Zagdul: ok
(11:50:48 PM) Someone that is _still_ in BDEAL
(11:51:12 PM) Zagdul: so you're telling me that there is someone in FA who still has an active api verified character in bdeal?
(11:51:27 PM) There are people in FA that are able to get BDEAL APIs
(11:51:32 PM) Zagdul: if so, you can give me that character who is in bdeal and I can verify that they're in both alliances
(11:51:38 PM) Zagdul: no
(11:51:44 PM) Zagdul: he's telling me they can't
(11:51:54 PM) Why did he happen to have a screenshot of Callum laying around?
(11:52:01 PM)
(11:52:04 PM) That was produced yesterday
(11:52:12 PM) Zagdul: he's telling me that didn't come from them
(11:52:13 PM) If they don't have access to that server
(11:52:21 PM) It came from someone they referred then
(11:52:22 PM) Zagdul: that that came from someone in bdeal
(11:52:36 PM) If it came from inside BDEAL, then it was someone Spartan512 put in touch with hostiles
(11:52:39 PM) Which makes both people traitors
(11:52:49 PM) How did this "someone in BDEAL" know Nulli Secunda wanted information ?
(11:52:54 PM) Unless Spartan512 told them?
(11:53:34 PM) Zagdul: either way
(11:53:51 PM) Zagdul: doesn't matter
(11:53:54 PM) It does
(11:53:57 PM) You've told me several things
(11:54:14 PM) If it wasn't Spartan then Spartan put him into contact with someone in BDEAL that was "unhappy"
(11:54:14 PM) (10:50:54 PM) Zagdul: he's telling me that there's someone still in BDEAL unhappy
(11:54:25 PM) Unhappy implies this person would be completely willing to sell the data
(11:54:29 PM) Not nessicarily scam
(11:54:49 PM) Either way you have a member SELLING intelligence to hostile entities
(11:55:00 PM) Zagdul: not in FA
(11:55:14 PM) If your member wasn't directly involved, he brokered the deal
(11:55:18 PM) Zagdul: no
(11:55:25 PM) Zagdul: he washed his hands of it.
(11:55:33 PM) By passing it off to an 'unhappy bdeal member' ?
(11:55:36 PM) Why would he do that?
(11:55:48 PM) Zagdul: to passing it off to the person in bdeal who has the information
(11:55:57 PM) An unhappy person
(11:56:02 PM) Zagdul: if that person is unhappy, I have no proof other than the screen you providedd.
(11:56:13 PM) Zagdul: which must have come from them
(11:56:18 PM) I have proof that S2N contacted Spartan512 requesting information
(11:56:25 PM) Zagdul: because the dudes in FA don't have access to that information
(11:56:27 PM) I have proof that immediately afterwards, S2N was contacted and supplied with the information
(11:56:30 PM) Zagdul: that's great
(11:56:36 PM) Then you tell me, it wasn't them
(11:56:39 PM) It was an unhappy BDEAL member
(11:56:57 PM) They either did it themselves or they passed it off to someone they knew would provide information to hostiles
(11:57:00 PM) Both options are teason
(11:57:01 PM) treason
(11:57:59 PM) I came to you so that we could handle this privately, but your whitewashing it completely and saying its a non-issue
(11:58:10 PM) Zagdul: I'm telling you now that at no time has spartan tried to sell information to nulli nor have they knowningly put nulli in contact with someone who would provide information of a blue alliance
(11:58:29 PM) Zagdul: outside of trying to extort isk from nulli
(11:58:48 PM) So the person contacting Nulli Secunda and supplying legitmately, current, and verifiable information was mere concidence ?
(11:59:01 PM) Zagdul: not sure
(11:59:08 PM) Zagdul: and I have no information on that
(11:59:32 PM) Right, because the person contacted 24 hours prior to the contact that supplied actual information was Spartan
(11:59:33 PM) Zagdul: I only have what you've given me.
(11:59:40 PM) So nobody could assume that Spartan played a part in that
(11:59:41 PM) Of course
(11:59:55 PM) Not to mention people in FA accessing admin systems in BDEAL as of yesterday
(12:00:06 AM) Zagdul: so you're asking me to tell a corp in FA to provide an apology for something they are telling me they didn't do?
(12:00:13 AM) Zagdul: and that you have no solid evidence they did
(12:00:32 AM) I'm telling you that something dirty is going on
(12:00:40 AM) Zagdul: that I won't disagree on
(12:00:55 AM) These people have been trying to fuck with BDEAL since more then a week before they left to join you
(12:01:03 AM) They've been talking shit, slandering, and sniping members non-stop
(12:01:09 AM) and whispering to everyone that will listen about how terrible BDEAL is
(12:01:22 AM) Zagdul: the only evidence you ahve that they've tried to fuck with bdeal is some logs of a guy trying to extort isk from nulli
(12:01:23 AM) When they finally joined FA they went out of there way to recruit as many corporations as possible from BDEAL into FA
(12:01:32 AM) and now they've been implicated in this data issue
(12:01:57 AM) I can dig up a shitload of logs of Spartan512 telling me information
(12:02:06 AM) Zagdul: I'm sure he's been unhappy
(12:02:16 AM) Zagdul: and that he's expressed his distaste of bdeal with you
(12:02:22 AM) Zagdul: however, that's within the coalition
(12:02:31 AM) And that he has gone out of his way to pull corporations out of BDEAL
(12:02:32 AM) Zagdul: he's expressed that distaste with me as well
(12:02:34 AM) And sow misinformation
(12:02:39 AM) Zagdul: yeah
(12:02:46 AM) This guy is a snake
(12:02:52 AM) Zagdul: he's been very vocal on how much he dislikes bdeal
(12:03:10 AM) BDEAL would collapse either way
(12:03:23 AM) But snakes are snakes, they will bite you eventually
(12:03:24 AM) Zagdul: that doesn't make him treasonous
(12:03:41 AM) Zagdul: it just makes him a snake

The tl;dr of this is that we provided Zagdul with ample proof of this operation. He told us he would look into it and did fuck all. BDEAL is dead now. The people responsible for this are still in Fatal Ascension as far as I know. We had plenty more evidence against a deliberate attempt by Fatal Ascension but didn't have proof for the theft, awoxing, and real time spying.

Ratter Drama

That brings us to the present: ratter drama. Fatal Ascension is so mad about Sperg Squad doing black ops drops out of NPC Pure Blind and killing dumb FA ratters that they are openly calling for war and whining to Goonswarm diplomats about it. They made this post to try and address the situation, in it they take credit for 'giving us' our space. Fatal Ascension ratting drama became so much of an issue that we removed the AFK camping clause from our CFC NIP so that CFC diplomats didn't have to commit suicide.


We've been removed from GFAllies because of our rivalry with Fatal Ascension and some blunt unofficial words said by Bring Stabity. We've been painted as attempting to undermine and kill Fatal Ascension. We've been painted as poor friends. The opposite is true. FA holds themselves up as a core CFC member, yet every action they took towards Test and BDEAL weren't just hindering, unfriendly, and self serving. It was abusive and destructive. These actions took place in a coalition that holds themselves up as equals. In that context, the most disgusting thing is not that they did what they did. It's that they were allowed to get away with it. 

Bagehi began playing Eve in 2003 briefly, then returned in 2006. He has been part of IAC, NC, SoCo, and HBC during that time. He has a thing for history, but mostly spends his time IRL in a corner office, staring at financial reports, like a MMD.

Support the Site

Helping TMC Grow October 3, 2013

Recent Threads